I’m not that interested by find out how to get quicker as a path runner, however I’m interested by how briskly folks’s brains work. My good friend Mike Foote and I’ve so much in frequent (we’re dads of toddlers, we each like early Metallica albums, we each reside in Missoula, we each grew up in small cities within the Midwest, and so forth.) however working velocity just isn’t certainly one of them (he’s on the rostrum when he races; I’m proud to complete with out injuring myself). So after we determined to journey to South Africa collectively in November, I believed it may be a very good probability to choose his mind a bit bit. He came visiting and sat down for an interview earlier than we left, after which I saved asking him questions all through our journey. Which was enjoyable for me, and tolerable for Mike, who was a very good sport about the entire thing.
Right here’s the video of our very prolonged interview—I hope you get a kick out of it (and perhaps some helpful perception):
Right here’s the total, lightly-edited transcript if you happen to’d somewhat learn it:
Brendan: That is my good friend Mike. He’s been an expert path and extremely runner for 11 years. He’s sponsored by a very massive out of doors attire firm. Throughout his profession, he’s podiumed at a bunch of the world’s high mountain extremely marathons. Some time again he invited me to go to South Africa with him for the Extremely Path Cape City. I believed it’d be enjoyable to ask him some questions since he’s a world class athlete and I’m not a world class athlete. OK. Are you snug?
Mike: I’m.
Brendan: OK. So do you run very first thing within the morning to get it out of the way in which or as a result of it’s your favourite factor to do day by day?
Mike: Sure, each. I do it as a result of that’s when I’ve power and since I’m trying ahead to doing it and I take pleasure in it most within the morning.
Brendan: Do you drink espresso first?
Mike: one hundred pc of the time.
Brendan: Have you ever ever entered a race and mentioned, “I feel I’d simply take it simple for this one? Not like go exhausting.”
Mike: Probably not.
Brendan: That’s good. In your expertise and opinion, is it extra enjoyable to strive exhausting?
Mike: I don’t know if making an attempt exhausting is the one factor that issues. I feel committing to one thing can carry extra goal to it. Generally that’s making an attempt exhausting, typically that’s simply, you understand, embracing the second, no matter that appears like. For a race, I feel making an attempt exhausting undoubtedly places you within the second much more.
Brendan: Are you ever on the market throughout a race and also you simply lose monitor of stuff and also you’re like interested by another issues and also you’re like, “Oh, I needs to be working quicker?”
Mike: Yeah, I’ve. I imply, if you happen to’re working a 100-miler and it’s all day or it’s the nighttime, you are inclined to get a bit crazy and your thoughts begins to float. That may undoubtedly occur.
Brendan: What’s the very best recommendation anyone has ever given you about working a really lengthy distance?
Mike: It was truly recommendation for climbing, but it surely was a climbing information out within the Tetons and he mentioned, “Perfection is within the course of.” To me it was like a lightning bolt of like, “Oh, it’s much less about, you understand, the end result and extra concerning the journey”, which is cliche and we’ve all heard it, however I simply felt like perfection is within the course of is such a succinct manner of placing it. I actually loved it. I attempt to method my working that manner. I break down an extremely marathon into moments and I attempt to simply carry on high of these moments, versus the entire thing. That’s perfection within the course of. If it’s 2:00 AM and I’m 70 miles right into a 100-mile race and it’s raining actually exhausting and all I actually need is to be achieved, as an alternative of simply interested by the end line, I’m gonna take into consideration all of the issues I can do in that second to remain heat, keep fed, keep transferring ahead as quick as I can. I’ll take into consideration efficiencies within the second and concentrate on that very acutely versus what’s on the finish. That manner your mind is staying current and you might be working by means of it versus simply making an attempt to be achieved with it.
Brendan: Have you ever ever vomited from exertion?
Mike: I’ve by no means vomited from exertion.
Brendan: What concerning the different finish?
Mike: Sure.
Brendan: What’s the longest you’ve ever spent in a porta-potty throughout a race? Like simply guess.
Mike: Not more than a minute.
Brendan: Whoa.
Mike: Yeah. OK.
Mike: Yeah, I’m a fortunate man.
Brendan: Do you take pleasure in ache?
Mike: No. Do I settle for ache? Sure.
Brendan: Do you expertise a variety of ache in your every day life?
Mike: It’s all relative, however yeah, I’m uncomfortable nearly day by day in some unspecified time in the future. However the ache, it’s like a one out of 10, you understand?
Brendan: How do you cope with ache throughout a race?
Mike: I don’t attempt to ignore it. I settle for it for what it’s, I acknowledge that there’s a really massive distinction between discomfort and ache and being injured and unsafe. So so long as I’m simply actually uncomfortable and in ache from working actually exhausting or simply having a very massive day, that’s OK, after which as quickly because it looks like I’m unsafe or injured, then I take note of it. Generally when issues are simply actually, actually exhausting, I’m not interested by the ache, I’m simply interested by how exhausting it’s and I remind myself, that is what you got here for, that is the second that you simply have been working in the direction of.
Brendan: The ache.
Mike: Certain, you may name it the ache. I name it the problem and discomfort. However yeah, it’s painful.
Brendan: Why do you run a 100 miles or 100 kilometers or 31 miles as an alternative of 26 or 13?
Mike: These are the distances that imply I can go a bit bit slower and be out a bit bit longer, and that’s the kind of stuff I take pleasure in. And after I do adventures, they’re much like that, all-day, comparatively sluggish adventures. Operating 100 miles or 100 kilometers within the mountains is fairly sluggish. It’s a variety of energy climbing up and working down and that’s the gear I take pleasure in probably the most.
Brendan: Do you eat assist station meals? You’re a professional athlete, you have got vitamin dialed. Do you ever stand up to an assist station and also you’re like, “Oh my god, they obtained Double Stuf Oreos” and also you simply home like 4 of ’em after which preserve working?
Mike: Sure.
Brendan: You do?
Mike: Oh yeah.
Brendan: OK.
Mike: Yeah, you gotta benefit from the assist station fare.
Brendan: I don’t know, typically I image folks being like, oh, I can’t mess with my delicately balanced vitamin. Like if I’m gonna win this factor or no matter. I type of assume they’re not like, ooh, you bought quesadillas.
Mike: I imply, to be sincere, if I’m working 55 kilometers, I’ll most likely simply eat the energy I’m carrying as a result of it’s gonna go fairly quick. Hopefully 5 – 6 hours. But when it’s a 100-miler, I’ll peruse, I’ll have a full meal, I’ll ask what they’ve obtained, typically they’ll prepare dinner for you if you happen to’ve obtained time.
Brendan: What would make you cease and seize meals from an assist station on this upcoming race? What could be so good you would need to? You’d be like, “Nah, yeah, I’m hitting this.” Like a bear claw.
Mike: I feel it’s gonna be scorching, so most likely like watermelon or an orange or one thing, like some form of like hydrating fruit. I most likely received’t eat a bear claw.
Brendan: Properly, what if they’d it like minimize up into smaller items?
Mike: OK, yeah, that’s truthful. Nonetheless no.
Brendan: What’s the longest dialog you’ve ever had with somebody at an assist station throughout an ultramarathon you’re competing in?
Mike: Hmm. I’m going into each assist station and I’m satisfied that the nicer I’m, the higher issues are gonna go and that’s what volunteers deserve. So I feel I’m very nice, however I’m not very curious.
Brendan: When do you go quick?
Mike: What do you imply?
Brendan: When do you suppose like, “OK, now I’m gonna go quick the entire time.”
Mike: You already know, I don’t, not the entire time. My worst races are those the place I get overconfident. I’m like, “I’m gonna exit exhausting right this moment.” That has hardly ever labored out for me, particularly in longer distances. It simply relies upon—on the terrain, on the space. But when I’m feeling good, I’ll simply slowly press on the gasoline pedal all through the day with none main massive shifts. I’m not the type of one that simply sits and sits after which is gonna dash it in. I’d prefer to have easy power all through. But when I’m feeling good and I can shut down the race exhausting, then I’ll try this. However I don’t actually have like a, the final 20 % or something like that. Do you want extra prescriptive?
Brendan: No.
Mike: Do want me to lie?
Brendan: Nope. No. Simply be sincere. Do you begin on the entrance of the pack or a pair rows again or like…center of the pack.
Mike: I begin in the back of the entrance of the pack.
Brendan: Again of the entrance of the pack.
Mike: That’s my spot.
Brendan: So like 300 folks within the race, how many individuals are in entrance of you firstly?
Mike: Twenty to thirty.
Brendan: Is that since you’re a well mannered Midwesterner otherwise you’re like legit that is the place I really feel probably the most snug?
Mike: Most likely a bit little bit of each. Yeah, I don’t wanna get in folks’s manner. I simply actually, actually don’t like being in folks’s manner. I’d a lot somewhat they’re in my manner. And that feels good if you cross them later if that occurs.
Brendan: What’s recommendation you’ll give somebody about working an ultramarathon however you’ll by no means apply to your personal race?
Mike: I imply, the one factor that involves thoughts is I all the time inform folks that no one within the historical past of working 100-milers has ever mentioned I went out too sluggish. However I feel it’s doable. I feel folks most likely have mentioned it. So like typically I’m like, I wouldn’t need to take a look at that idea. It’s good to exit conservative, however I might not need to finish a race and be like, “Oh man, I waited manner, manner, manner too lengthy.”
Brendan: Throughout a race, do you ever ask your self why you’re doing it? Like why don’t you simply golf?
Mike: I imply, solely on a regular basis. The entire time, like why am I doing this? I don’t know. I feel it’s a very good factor, I feel it’s a very good query. Like, I imply, I feel it’s in vogue to ask, you understand, to have a why if you’re doing one thing like this and I feel that your causes for working shift, prefer it’s necessary to have like a very good goal behind it. My reply initially of my profession, I most likely advised myself I used to be following my curiosity, however I actually was aggressive and I needed to show myself in one thing ’trigger I’d by no means actually had a lot success athletically. Once I began to in working, I used to be like, “Oh, this feels good.”
Brendan: OK, after which what about now? If you get to that time in subsequent week’s race, what’s your why of doing it? Like “that is my job”?
Mike: My why now?
Brendan: Like “I clocked in”?
Mike: “I gotta gather my paycheck?” My why now’s that I really do find it irresistible. And for me, we’re going to South Africa, I like experiencing new locations, I like experiencing new communities and cultures. I even have one baby and one other on the way in which and I would like to have the ability to present my youngsters that they will do exhausting issues, they will do extraordinary issues and that it’s OK to swing massive. And so after I’m on the market now I take into consideration that.
Brendan: What’s worse, overtraining or undertraining?
Mike: Overtraining.
Brendan: Are you undertrained proper now?
Mike: I’m hoping I’m proper on the sting. Yesterday I felt overtrained, however the week earlier than I felt undertrained, so.
Brendan: What number of miles have you ever run this 12 months? Approximate.
Mike: I don’t know, I don’t listen.
Brendan: What number of miles do you run per week?
Mike: I imply, it’s so much lower than it was. I’d say after I’m truly coaching, 60 to 80.
Brendan: What number of miles did you run per week if you have been like high of your sport?
Mike: Like 100 to 130.
Brendan: Do you ever stick round and watch the final place particular person cross the end line?
Mike: I do, yeah, it’s the very best.
Brendan: Why is it the very best?
Mike: It’s actually cool to see any individual chasing cutoffs like that. And sometimes you’re additionally surrounded by different folks that will have completed sooner, but additionally got here out and hobbled to a end line to look at that final finisher, and there’s this collective effervescence that occurs and this communal really feel that type of transcends the occasion. It’s this celebration, it’s just like the exclamation level on the tip of a very cool expertise. And it’s all the time emotional, individuals are chasing this factor and it’s extremely exhausting. Yeah, it’s fairly particular.
Brendan: Do you suppose the cheers are louder for the primary place finisher or the final place finisher at most ultramarathons?
Mike: Positively louder for the final place. Maybe extra folks for the primary place, but it surely’s a extra reasonable decibel. The final place particular person, you’re like dropping your thoughts for ’em as a result of they might or could not get this arbitrary time and subsequently may have completed or not completed and it’s very thrilling.
Brendan: What number of toenails do you have got proper now?
Mike: 9.
Brendan: What’s the bottom variety of toenails you’ve had in your profession?
Mike: I imply, I truly take pleasure in not having terrible ft. I don’t know, perhaps 5. However normally I don’t lose ’em, so.
Brendan: What do you attribute that to?
Mike: Carrying sneakers that match. This can be a pet peeve about ultrarunning. I feel that we’re a bit too pleased with our terrible toenails. I feel that folks simply want higher footwear.
Brendan: What do you eat throughout a race?
Mike: How lengthy is the race?
Brendan: Let’s say 50 miles most. What do you eat throughout that?
Mike: 50 miles most, I eat sugar. I eat a variety of chews, identical to no matter, like chewy gummy stuff I can eat and I most likely eat just a few 100 energy an hour.
Brendan: Why not gels?
Mike: I’m simply kinda over ’em. I ate solely gels for like a decade.
Brendan: Simply working, not identical to you ate ’em on a regular basis? For 10 years. What number of energy do you suppose you eat per hour?
Mike: 300 on common.
Brendan: Do you drink energy or do you simply drink straight water?
Mike: I’m not dogmatic about it, however I normally drink largely water.
Brendan: What have we not touched on that you simply had thought of?
Mike: I used to love get on the beginning line and identical to dimension folks up and be like, “Oh, that particular person seems match, that particular person seems quick, like, hmm.” And now I simply think about that everyone at one level was a toddler as a result of I’ve a toddler. And I’m simply imagining them being two years outdated, toddling round, being tyrants to their dad and mom. And I’m like, that is ridiculous. It’s simply unimaginable that we obtained right here. I sincerely did that this 12 months at a race and it was such a strain launch for me.
Brendan: Do you apply constructive self-talk throughout races, in your head, or actually speak to your self?
Mike: I do, and it’s benign stuff like you bought this, keep sturdy, keep within the second. And typically some expletives if I’m actually digging deep. I don’t know if these are constructive or not. Truly perhaps that’s the one factor that I might inform any individual else to do is constructive self-talk whereas typically I can gas myself with some sturdy language and it appears to assist in the second.
Brendan: Nevertheless it’s not unfavorable sturdy language like, “You’re a chunk of shit, Mike”?
Mike: Properly, it’s like, don’t be a chunk of shit. So it’s like proper on the sting. I attempt to keep action-oriented and solutions-oriented, that’s my constructive self-talk. I’m like, “OK, what can I do now to ensure that I’m feeling good ten minutes from now? How a lot liquid do I want? How a lot meals do I want? That solutions-oriented curiosity and mindset is my constructive self-talk.
Brendan: Do you have got a mantra? Like would you say there’s issues that you simply or some mantras that you simply repeat?
Mike: When my thoughts is getting tremendous distracted, typically I’ll simply repeat the phrase, “Now, right here, this.”
Brendan: Have you ever ever shut off your headlamp if you’re manner behind any individual who’s forward of you in a race after which handed them after which turned it on?
Mike: Oh yeah. I’ve achieved headlamp warfare for positive. Both I’ll preserve it off so long as doable so any individual doesn’t know I’m close to or I’ll flip it off as I’m approaching any individual so that they don’t get motivated to run any quicker away from me.
Brendan: Do you ever say something nasty to them as you cross by or like attempt to, like [imitates “ch-ch-ch-ah-ah-ah” sound from Friday the 13th]
Mike: No. I don’t try this. I’m overly good and simply act like I’m not in any form of ache or discomfort at that second. I’m simply overly jolly, and it’s identical to psychological warfare.
Brendan: Do you want getting up early?
Mike: Yeah, I do
Brendan: How a lot espresso do you drink per day??
Mike: A cup.
Brendan: One cup?
Mike: Mmm hmm.
Brendan: What your coverage on transferring walkways?
Mike: I don’t take them.
Brendan: You need a donut?
Mike: No.
Brendan: Do you take heed to music or something if you run?
Mike: Yeah. Largely podcasts.
Brendan: Are you gonna take heed to podcasts throughout your race?
Mike: I don’t take heed to something after I race.
Brendan: Do you stretch?
Mike: I do the sofa stretch. It’s to maintain my knees comfortable. In order that’s solely current, however usually probably not.
Brendan: Are you able to sleep on planes?
Mike: Just a bit bit.
Brendan: Do you take pleasure in being well-known in a really area of interest atmosphere? Such as you don’t get acknowledged strolling down the road in New York, however at path working stuff you get acknowledged? Do you take pleasure in that?
Mike: Oh yeah. That’s the one purpose I’m nonetheless right here.
Brendan: Have you ever ever gotten misplaced throughout a race?
Mike: On a regular basis, yeah.
Brendan: Actually?
Mike: Oh man, yeah, I’ve obtained a foul file.
Brendan: Have you ever tried going slower? As a result of I’ve by no means gotten misplaced.
Mike: You haven’t?
Brendan: I don’t suppose so.
Mike: Actually?
Brendan: I don’t even suppose I’ve needed to flip round.
Mike: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like typically I’ll get there earlier than the volunteer and so there’ll be like flags entering into two instructions and so they’re the identical colour however ones for a 25K and one’s for the 50K.
Brendan: Not an issue a variety of us have. I can see you having it although. So you have got a chilly?
Mike: Yeah.
Brendan: And also you’re gonna race anyway. You suppose I’m gonna get your chilly earlier than my race?
Mike: Most likely the morning of. Proper if you get up you’ll really feel it
Brendan: Do you do pace work?
Mike: I do depth. So most of my like exhausting efforts are up the hill so it’s not that quick truly. However I’m doing it at a excessive effort. So I’ll simply do 5 by three minutes up a steep hill to construct power and cardio capability. After which, you understand, I’ll swap that up, typically I’ll simply do a tough 30-minute effort up a hill. So it’s simply uncommon that I’m doing pace, one thing actually quick and flat. For the targets I’ve, I don’t actually need a complete lot of flat pace work.
Brendan: Can I give you an ass-wipe?
Mike: Yeah, positive, thanks.
Brendan: Have you ever ever had a nickname that caught? When do you utilize poles in a race?
Mike: When it’s too steep to run.
Brendan: Have you ever ever worn the race T-shirt within the race?
Mike: It’s like sporting like a band T-shirt if you’re going to their live performance, I simply can’t do it.
Brendan: So no.
Mike: No.
Brendan: What’s your purpose for right this moment?
Mike: What’s my purpose?
Brendan: Yeah.
Mike: Keep hydrated. Run quick. Make a good friend.
Brendan: Do you get nervous?
Mike: Yeah.
Brendan: What about constipated?
Mike: No.
Brendan: What do you get nervous about?
Mike: The ache that can occur, the concern of expectations versus actuality typically. I’m truly normally probably the most nervous like two days earlier than after which by the point I get to the beginning line, I’m not very nervous.
Brendan: What’s your ratio of liquid energy to stable energy?
Mike: Most likely 75 % stable energy, 25 % liquid.
Brendan: Do you have got any recommendation for your self earlier than you begin this race?
Mike: I feel as a result of I simply don’t know the race course that nicely, it will most likely be good for me to be even handed within the first hour in order that I set myself up for the second half.
Brendan: After which if you happen to’re feeling good, you’ll push it a bit bit?
Mike: Yeah. Imaginative and prescient quest has begun.
Brendan: The way you feeling?
Mike: I’m not good in any respect. I simply don’t have any power. I imply, it would come again and I’m making an attempt, however.
Brendan: How far am I behind the chief?
Mike: You’re actually far behind the leaders. You’re like 5 hours, six hours.
Brendan: OK.
Brendan: Mike, what do you when a race takes longer than you thought it will?
Mike: Properly, you simply, you’re employed with what you bought and you retain taking good care of your self. The technique doesn’t actually change, you simply type of acknowledge that perhaps it’s not going as quick as you need. That’s OK, you continue to have the identical targets: attending to the end as quick as you may and taking good care of your self alongside the way in which.
Brendan: You ever get a rock in your shoe throughout a race?
Mike: Yeah.
Brendan: What do you do?
Mike: Properly, if it’s not that massive and it’s not slowing me down, I simply go away it in there. But when it’s bothering me, I’ll take my shoe off and get the rock out.
Brendan: What about like an invisible poky plant piece?
Mike: I’ve a excessive tolerance to discomfort in my ft and normally I’m manner too lazy to do something about it.
Brendan: Have you ever ever learn this ebook?
Mike: Sure.
Brendan: Have you ever ever bonked throughout a race?
Mike: Many instances.
Brendan: What occurs?
Mike: Properly, typically I’m good and eat a variety of meals and maintain myself and switch issues round, and typically I don’t or I don’t end.
Brendan: Do you double knot your trainers?
Mike: Is determined by how lengthy the shoelace is, in the event that they’re longer, I’ll triple knot, however I at the least double knot them.
Brendan: You suppose you’ll be capable to get a selfie with a lion?
Mike: It’s doable.
Brendan: How lengthy do you normally wait after a race to start out working once more?
Mike: You already know, I prefer to take heed to my physique. It may very well be just a few days, may very well be just a few weeks.
Brendan: Was it price it?
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